Baked sites for paying clients?

[deeve007]

Hey guys,

Was just wondering, seen a lot of sites here from personal companies, friends, contacts...etc. Just wondering if anyone had example site(s) built for a client that paid a legitimate market price for it? I don't need to know how much they paid (that should be privileged info anyway), just that they paid a legit market price.

Thanks,
Dave

(PS: My latest "baked" site: www.michezoyouth.co m)

[chio]

Hi,
What is a "legitimate market price"? I think there isn't much money to earn with webdesign at all. Mostly it depends on the client, how much he is willing to pay. I made sites (not with Wb, but that doesnt matter) for 3000€ and nearly the same work for 300€.

I made 3 WB pages until now, one for free (sozial thing), one for some beers for a cafe/bar in vienna and one for 700€, which is still under construction (and will be the next years). Recently I made an offer for a "bigger" site (> 60 pages), for 1500,- but I don't know if I get the order.

[sorry for my poor english]

[deeve007]

"I think there isn't much money to earn with webdesign at all."

I have a bunch of friends and former work colleagues (all working in the industry) who would beg to differ with you.

A "legitimate market price" is one that a web professional could live on. That does mean sites made for paying clients and not for a hobby, "on-the-side", or for a few beers. Basically I'm trying to get a gauge on the level of site that WB has been used for. I've fond it great for the  few sites I've made for non-paying charities and the like, but am curious as to what level it would be possible to take the application. I'm not expecting it to handle million dollar Fortune 500 websites, but perhaps SME's.

Most of the sites I find posted here seem to be personal sites, charities, or "for a mate". So I'm curious...

[designationlocutus]

I always wondered, are you actually allowed to charge for the open-source package? Always thought that any price offered would just be for the hosting costs and not the engine.

[deeve007]

Why couldn't you charge for it? A client can pay as much as a client is willing to pay. Hence why prices were so high during the dot com "boom". Most clients don't care what you build their site with, but if it does what you have contracted with them.

Open source, PHP, ASP, Lego blocks... paper and glue. If it does what the client wants i to do then you can charge them whatever you want (and they will pay).

PHP is an open source coding language. You don't think companies charge as much for that as for ASP and the like? I'm guessing from the comments so far that you guys don't work in the industry? I'd really like to hear from someone who does, and has worked with WB for paying clients sites.

Please. 

[marathoner]

I always wondered, are you actually allowed to charge for the open-source package? Always thought that any price offered would just be for the hosting costs and not the engine.

Most professionals charge for their time and expertise. They do not (or at least should not) charge for any open source code.

[zonathen]

Seems to me that wb could handle anything regardless of the size of the corporation.  I've found it to be a very reliable product and used in multiple heavy traffic, bigger customer sites without hitch.

For complicated projects I even combine WB with CodeIgniter, a MVC framework for rapid php development and they both hum along nicely.

Has anybody out there experienced different results?

[kweitzel]

nope, nothing bad to say about WB ... mostly the performance issues I had to deal with were server related and not WB related.

I also don't see any issues with large sites ... as long as the server(s) included in the setup are up to the task

cheers

Klaus

[underg]

Why couldn't you charge for it? A client can pay as much as a client is willing to pay. Hence why prices were so high during the dot com "boom". Most clients don't care what you build their site with, but if it does what you have contracted with them.

Open source, PHP, ASP, Lego blocks... paper and glue. If it does what the client wants i to do then you can charge them whatever you want (and they will pay).

PHP is an open source coding language. You don't think companies charge as much for that as for ASP and the like? I'm guessing from the comments so far that you guys don't work in the industry? I'd really like to hear from someone who does, and has worked with WB for paying clients sites.

Please. 

Well I wouldnt pay someone of free software The only time I paid was for a CMS the dev made themself )))))))))))))))))))))))))

[kweitzel]

Well I wouldnt pay someone of free software The only time I paid was for a CMS the dev made themself )))))))))))))))))))))))))

But you don't pay for the Software. You pay for the service of installing, configuring and designing the page ... thee are enough people out there, who are happy to pay for that service.

E.g.:

• Installation & Configuration: $100
• Adaptation of existing template: $75
• Creation of exclusive design: $250

Is that what you wanted to see?

cheers

Klaus

PS: That are not my prices since I am in Europe

[deeve007]

Well I wouldnt pay someone of free software The only time I paid was for a CMS the dev made themself )))))))))))))))))))))))))

As a professional web developer (those who are), what are clients paying for? The tools/code/applications you use, or the expertise and experience you have?

I can tell for what 99% of clients are paying for, and it ain't got nothing to do with what language or tools you're using.

If I develop a high end, secure, enterprise-level website for a business, it doesn't matter what platform or language I use, the cost for time/labour/value would be the same. The only difference would be if hosting costs or hardware requirements...etc meant a cost difference.

Now, what difference would using an "open source" product mean? Well two choices:

1) It means less development time which equals less development costs. Potentially. There might of course be other features that you can add due to needing less time to build the underlying structure. Or you might have to take longer to ensure security is sufficient for an enterprise-level application.

But the result is either a lower cost for the client or else added features with the extra time you have

OR

2) More profit for you, the developer. Who decides what something is worth? The market, end of story. And if the market decides that something you have built is worth a certain amount, but you've saved time/costs by using something open source, then good luck to you. Like it or not, that's a free market economy. And you, the developer, can decide what's best for your business - charge market rates and compete with other equivalent companies using non-open source languages and products, or charge less and undercut.

And there's no right or wrong for that, there are situation where both could be justified. And in the end, who's choice is it? The person who owns the company, that's who.

[deeve007]

Thanks underg and kweitzel, your feedback much appreciated. I'll give you the reason I'm trying to do some research on this:

My background is design, project and account management. Have been - or should say "was" - in the online/new media industry for almost 10 years. Yes, rode the dot com boom for a while and even survived the crash! This year got out of it to go to Kenya to work in community development..etc. Yeah, a change of scene somewhat.

Anyway, even though I was here in Kenya doing something completely different (www.nakedchronicles .com) it was silly not to use my background for redoing the organisation's website (www.actionchildren. org), and then one for a new project I've started (www.michezoyouth.co m). This was where I discovered WB.

So now with this new ability to create CMS driven sites without the need to work with a backend developer, I'm trying to see what level I can take it too, since I need some extra "money on the side", and there's a few opportunities here in Kenya (new market, slightly behind in technology...etc).

Hence my research.

So thanks again for your feedback. Anyone else most welcome...

[burki]

there are no "normal" quotes. if your work is good, just go ahead, do it. if you know the client, its even better! count the hours and charge for them

thats important.... and donate 10% to ryans product!

wb is a free tool/software, but the work you are doing with it has nothing to do with wb!
you do some php-scripting, some picture adaptions and even some html... charge the price you need... but stay fair

[Vincent]

First of all, let me compliment you with your sites, Dave. They look very good indeed!

Secondly, I totally agree with Burki: charge whatever is reasonable for your expertise, design qualities and other efforts, and don't forget to donate to WB. This way also your customer is helping to keep WB healthy and eventually get to a higher level.

Regards,
Vincent