Author Topic: Discussion about English only forum  (Read 6917 times)

Offline Stefek

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2015, 01:33:06 PM »
We should see, that most people are no native English speakers, but speak English because it's the world language (and quite easy to learn / understand).

That is correct.
And the same should go for the germans - and many of them read/write english.

I also had to learn english to participate in the english discussions here (no kidding - the old-timers here remember my broken english?)

Everyone benefits from participating more in the english discussions.

Just go for it.

Having said that, of course a german forum is needed and wanted.
It's only not OK to turn an international project into a german project. That's what I decipher from the people who seem to criticize the situation - and I agree.


« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 01:39:03 PM by Stefek »
"Gemeinsam schafft man mehr."

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Offline nibz

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2015, 07:41:16 PM »
When the dev-team is interested, i have claimed the WebsiteBaker github: https://github.com/WebsiteBaker
So if we like we can make a team and work together.
I can also make a modules section where i can put all the modules, so people can contribute.
I personally can check modules if they work (i don't have enough understanding of php to check if they are coded right).
And i can also make a themes part.

I don't know if the WB team agrees with this but i wanted to offer the github repo.

Kind regards,
Robin (nibz).

Offline cwsoft

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2015, 08:25:54 PM »
@Nibz: Would you transfer the GitHub WebsiteBaker repository to the WebsiteBaker foundation, or just offer access to it? Just in case needed, I still have a local GitHub clone of the WebsiteBaker SVN on my local hard disc. I would appreciate this step, but somehow doubt the DEVs will go this step in the near future.

Cheers

Offline nibz

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2015, 09:43:46 PM »
@cwsoft  i will not have to transfer the repo to the foundation because i made a github organisation. If someone from the foundation asks permission i will add them to the repo (they need to have a github profile themselve).
I pulled the SVN to Github (just like you did), check the github page for the current progress.
I made 3 braches:
1: master : this is the development branch
2: 2.8.3SP3 : the latest complete version of WebsiteBaker with SP3 (without fixes)
3: 2.8.3 : version 2.8.3

I will add you to the repo so you can push changes where you'll think they are needed.

Kind regards,

Robin (nibz)

Offline Tez Oner

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2015, 09:44:46 PM »
Quote
The Chinese don't release, they only take
But that's another discussion!

+1 for Argos.

And have some look at other 'open source' projects, have a prober public bug tracker,
add a features / have / want to list (like yahoo), let someone moderate this etc etc.
en make milestones and public beta's.

This discussion is coming back every year from what I remember, WB should take this
'wave' and use the contribution a lot of developers would love to invest in making WB
better and (even more) user friendly, also for power-users.

And this whole childish issue about language doesn't help anything, but anybody who
can think should know an international language (like english) would uplift WB to a bigger
community and therefore a better (and more well known) CMS. (So e.q. clients actually know
what WB is, besides only WP, Joomla or Drupal ;)


Cheerz,

Tez Oner
Tez | VA-MDS / MMO | communications
--------------------------------------------
info@va-mds.com / http://va-mds.com

Offline cwsoft

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2015, 09:53:08 PM »
@Nibz: Excellent, checked out your Repo two hours ago, when it was practically empy :-)
My GitHub repo included the entire project history since WB 2.6.0, incl. the tags for those versions, but I guess it's fine to start from 2.8 branch only.

There is no need to add me to the organisation list, as I stopped my active development for WB in February this year. Keep up the good work.

Cheers

Offline nibz

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2015, 10:39:53 PM »
@cwsoft would you be so kind to exchange the version that i have with your version?
Because i lost the tags (i think), because they are not there, and it would be easier to have them because the overview between the versions will be nicer.

I also made an extra Github for the modules: https://github.com/WebsiteBaker-modules
All the current modules on the addons repo are there (the versions are the same as the repo).

If someone would like access to something just ask.
If you like to contribute just create a pull request.
Any questions are welcome.

Offline cwsoft

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2015, 11:00:32 PM »
@Nibz: Just searched GitHub for repositories containing WebsiteBaker.
Found an anonymous clone of my WebsiteBaker GitHub Repo from user account ivankaa with all the branches and tags: https://github.com/ivankaa/WebsiteBaker

So you can just clone this repo and replace yours. If it does not work out for some reason, just send me a PM and I will share my local copy with you. Had to run some bash scripts to fetch and convert all SVN branches, trunks and tags into Git branches and annotaded tags, as tags etc. are handled differently in Git. Having the full history however is really nice.

Cheers

Offline Stefek

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2015, 02:23:15 PM »
@Uwe,

rereading your anwer to Tez Oner, I see that you are really overreacting and misinterpreting the situation.

Quote
And if you want to make it 'international' start with 1 forum in English, it's 2015 right ;)

Yeah, thats, what i mean - germans are not longer welcome here
kick all the german speakers and close the german forum areas - and maybe the last 3 english speakers save the (WB-)world

good luck


At no point has Tez Oner made any indication Germans are not welcome and that somebody should be kicked out.

Your reaction to his and other people statements, as I have observed, create even more turbulations and this creates an atmosphere of displeasure. It's better to stick to the facts instead of putting interpretations into statements that are pure creations and just not true.

Give yourself some rest.

I know that you are a good guy at heart and like most of us you also want to make a contribution to WebsiteBaker.
 
Don't you understand that they also want WebsiteBaker go in the right direction, better, improved, more contemporary?

You are part of this community and so are they.

Stefek
"Gemeinsam schafft man mehr."

gemeinsam
1. mehreren Personen oder Dingen in gleicher Weise gehörend, eigen
2. in Gemeinschaft [unternommen, zu bewältigen]; zusammen, miteinander
#Duden

Offline jacobi22

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2015, 03:47:46 PM »
You are part of this community and so are they.
Ich denke, das Thema ist erledigt. Niemand wird sich bei mir entschuldigen, also werde ich das auch nicht tun.
Ihr habt gestern aus einer ganz normalen Frage mit einem ganz einfachen Hintergrund (reicht eine Sprache im Forum oder haben die User dann Angst, nicht mehr verstanden zu werden) ein Fass auf gemacht als hätte ich die Welt zum Einsturz gebracht. Diese Frage wird seid dem Bestehen des Vereins diskutiert und wird auch in jedem anderen deutsch-sprachig entwickeltem CMS gestellt. Ich sehe an dieser Frage eigentlich keinen Grund, jemanden ans Kreuz zu nageln, mit Ausschluß zu drohen, vorzuwerfen, ich würde kiffen usw
Natürlich ist das alles nicht wahr und ich hab mir das alles nur ausgedacht, egal....
Mittlerweile wurden auch schon jede Menge Beiträge dazu gelöscht, andere verändert.
Sicher ist meine Reaktion auf diese Art und Weise jetzt auch nicht mehr fein, aber so ist das eben wenn man jemanden das Messer an die Kehle hält. Jeder hat irgendwo seine Grenzen, ein Argos und ein Uwe auch

Und zu deinem Zitat und den Worten darunter
Die Aussage des Moderators war sinngemäß: Nach seiner Ansicht ist die Kommunikation über die Entwicklung in rein deutsch-sprachigen Bereich Schuld am Untergang von WB
Auf Nachfrage erhielt ich die Antwort: es störten insbesondere die Threads mit den Fixes, die im Zusammenhang mit dem SP3 und der Umstellung auf mysqli im deutschen Module-Thread gepostet wurden.
Was wäre denn die Konsequenz aus solcher Behauptung? Eigentlich ganz einfach zu beantworten: Um solch Problem erneut zu vermeiden, versuchen wir es mal in einem rein englischem Forum, weil eben der deutsch-sprachige Bereich nach seiner Wortwahl die Ursache allen Übels ist
Weißt du: wenn diese 10-12 Leute die sich in beiden "bösen" Threads an der Diskussion beteiligt haben, an einem Tisch gesessen hätten, wäre diese Formulierung von Argos in zwei Minuten geklärt. Er hat es so nicht gemeint, wie ich es übersetzt habe und wenn er es mir erklärt hätte, hätte ich so nicht geantwortet!  Und über die Frage, ob ein rein englisch-sprachiges Forum solche Konflikte in Zukunft vermeiden könnte, hätt man vielleicht nochmal 10 min gesprochen. Eine ganz einfache Frage, die jeder spontan mit Ja oder Nein beantworten kann. Ich sagte es gestern schon mal, Leute meiner Generation hätten vielleicht ein Problem damit, vielleicht auch Ängste, niemanden mehr zu finden, der hilft. Wenn das so ist, stimmt man halt mit Nein. Hat man am Ende 1000 Votings, kann man einen Trend ableiten. Ob man das Ergebnis dann nutzt, steht auf einem anderem Blatt. Mir persönlich wäre es egal gewesen, Sprache war nie ein Problem für mich, irgendwo zu helfen.

Ich wehre mich nur dagegen, das wir deutsch-sprachigen nun als Ursache für den WB-Untergang ausgemacht wurden. Ich hab gestern zahlreiche private Gespräche darüber gehabt und kann nun auch nachvollziehen, das sich die Jungs im engl. Bereich etwas ausgegrenzt fühlten. Das in Zukunft zu vermeiden war die Intension für den Start der Umfrage.
Du hast gerade eben einen Beitrag im Bootstrap-Thread als Antwort an Yetiie geschrieben, da bin ich mal 100% conform, aber den Leuten, die nach dem SP3-Problem schnellsten für Lösungen ihre Zeit geopfert haben, nun dafür die Schuld zu geben, halte ich für den falschen Weg. Genau so vertreibt man die Leute nämlich.
Ich glaube, Tez (oder war es Nibz) hatte geschrieben, es gibt keinen "deutschen" Code - Recht hat er! Ich war mir nie zu schade, einen Translator zu benutzen oder meine Kids zu fragen: was meint der hier, um jemanden in einer anderen Sprache zu helfen. Darum hätte ich es auch nie als Problem gesehen, das der Code für einen Fix nur im deutsch-sprachigem Bereich gepostet wurde.

TRANSLATET with Google Translator (es wird sicher nicht dem entsprechen, was ich in deutsch formuliert habe und eher noch höhere Wellen schlagen)


I think the issue is settled. No one will apologize to me, so I will not do that too.
You have yesterday from a normal question with a very simple background (is one language enough in the forum or the user then fear will not have understood) brought a barrel on as if I had made the world to collapse. This question will be discussed since the start of the "Verein WebsiteBaker" and shall also be made in nearly every other CMS German languages ​​developed. I think, this simple question is no reason to nail someone to the cross, to threaten exclusion, blame, I'd smoke pot, etc
Of course, all this is not true now and I thought it would all up, no matter ....
Meanwhile, a lot of posts were deleted or changed in the last 30 ours.
Sure my reaction to this way is now no longer fine, but that's just when you hold someone the knife to her throat. Each has its limits somewhere, an "Argos" and "Uwe" also

And below to your quote and the words
The statement of the moderator was this:
Quote from: Argos
Many developing discussions take place only in the German forums, and in my opinion that is one of the reasons of the decreasing popuarity and development of WB...
Upon request, I received the answer: it interfered with in particular the threads with the fixes that have been posted in connection with the SP3 and converting to mysqli modules in the German thread - see here.
What the consequence would be because of such assertion? You try to remove the cause of the problem, ergo: no more German.
It's quite easy to answer: In order to avoid such problem again, we try it in a purely English forum, just because the German-speaking area is the root of all evil according to his choice of words (my interpretation of the quote in the top)
You know: if this 10-12 people have participated in two "bad" thread in the discussion had been sitting together at one table, this formulation of Argos would be released in two minutes, and the question whether a purely English-language forum such could avoid conflicts in the future, you'd maybe another 10 min spoken. A very simple question that anyone can answer spontaneously with yes or no. I said it before yesterday, my generation might have a problem with that, maybe fears, to find no one to help. If so, it is true just in the negative. If you have at the end of 1000 voting, one can derive a trend. Whether one uses the result then, is on another sheet. Personally, I would not have mattered, language was never a problem for me to help somewhere.

I'm just on the other hand, we were German-speaking now identified as the cause of the WB downfall defend myself. Yesterday I had many private conversations about and understands now that the boys in the English-Speakers Area, they felt somewhat marginalized. To avoid that in the future was the intension for the start of the survey.
You just wrote up a post in the bootstrap thread in response to Yetiie, I'm 100% conform times, thats the real problem, but the people who fastest after SP3 problem for solutions have given their time, now for blaming, hold I voted for the wrong path. Just sells to people that is.
I think Tez (or was it Nibz?) had written, there is no "German" code - he's right! I was never too good to use a Translator or to ask my kids: what do you think of this to help someone in another language. That's why I never would have seen it as a problem that was posted the code for a fix, only in German-speakers area.
[/i]
Probleme sind da, um sie zu lösen, nicht, um nach Ausreden zu suchen.

Offline Stefek

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2015, 04:11:17 PM »
I can't really follow the whole discussion.

For what I see, there is too much "think about" and too little real communication.

Who set a knife on your throat?
Just relax.

Or who said you would smoke weed (kiffen)?

Please, take a joke from time to time.

And if someone in your opinion is not right, there is no need to misinterpret his words.

But you say: "Yeah, thats, what i mean - germans are not longer welcome here kick all the german speakers and close the german forum areas."

That's not ok.

I remember when I once asked you if you would like to work with me on a fork for bakery. Instead of looking for the positives in  my intention, you just accused me of "robbery" and some such things. We operate here a Open Source Project (or at least we did before it went all into the hands of one person).
Everyone who produces code and releases under the GNU/GPL does it in full agreement with the license, knowing that others can come and improve upon the existing code (or at least change  :-D).

So just stop being suspicious all the time. Nobody is out to kill you with any imaginary knife or some such thing.
There are differences in opinion, that's all.

If I were an moderator here, I would give you some days off.

Take a walk.
Life is to be lived and enjoyed.

Helping others in any form makes life worthwhile. I get that.
That's why some people here are concerned about the future of this project.

Have a nice weekend.

"Gemeinsam schafft man mehr."

gemeinsam
1. mehreren Personen oder Dingen in gleicher Weise gehörend, eigen
2. in Gemeinschaft [unternommen, zu bewältigen]; zusammen, miteinander
#Duden

Offline jacobi22

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2015, 04:33:34 PM »
Quote
I remember when I once asked you if you would like to work with me on a fork for bakery. Instead of looking for the positives in  my intention, you just accused me of "robbery" and some such things.

Siehste, du drehst dir die Sachen hin wie du sie brauchst, um als braver Engel dazustehen. Hab es nicht anders erwartet und ja auch vorhergesagt  :-D

Ich habe dir damals geantwortet, das ich es nicht fair finde, jemanden, der noch aktiv ein Modul pflegt!!! seine Arbeit zu nehmen. Mal ganz davon ab, das wir zwei zusammenpassen wie Feuer und Wasser, über jedes andere Modul, das ungepflegt auf AMASP vergammelt, hätten wir (damals) gern reden können.
Was wäre denn die Konsequens aus deinem Bakery-Projekt gewesen? Christoph hätte seine Arbeit wahrscheinlich sofort eingestellt. Für dich mag das Normalität sein, für mich ein No-Go.

Quote
If I were an moderator here, I would give you some days off.

kennste dich aus, ne?  :-D
aber keine Bange, dem Wunsch wird entsprochen

Translatet with Google
You see, it's you turn things down as you need in order to be as brave angel. Did not have expected otherwise and indeed predicted:-D

I told you then answered regarding Bakery, I do not think it's fair to someone,
the more active a module maintains !!! to take his work. Time is entirely dependent on the two of us together like fire and water, over any other module, the scruffy unkempt on AMASP we had (at that time) are welcome to talk.
What the consequent from your Bakery project would been? Christoph had his work probably set immediately. For you, the normality may be, for me is a no-go.


Quote
If I were to moderator here, I would give you some days off.

Do you have expirience, right? :-D
But do not worry, the request will be
 
Probleme sind da, um sie zu lösen, nicht, um nach Ausreden zu suchen.

Offline Stefek

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2015, 04:45:17 PM »
This is just another construction of yours.

You think I want to present me as an angel.

Fine.

And no, regarding the bakery, no worries. If you don't know, I always was in good communication with Christoph (hell, I even made his bakery-site template back in 2009 or so). And it was never my intention to "rob" something or some such imagination of yours.

But of course you can live your imaginary life, full of people who are out to get you. I doubt it's true, but then again, it's your choice. It's your life after all. And your imagination.

Just stop picking fights with other forum users. It's really bad for the atmosphere here.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 04:59:32 PM by Stefek »
"Gemeinsam schafft man mehr."

gemeinsam
1. mehreren Personen oder Dingen in gleicher Weise gehörend, eigen
2. in Gemeinschaft [unternommen, zu bewältigen]; zusammen, miteinander
#Duden

Offline justy

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2015, 05:42:16 PM »
@Stefek & jacobi22

First --> I don't want to stand between lines and I'm also not Mr. Right. We all make faults.

It seems that there are some things from the past are unspoken between you. Now you did it both here.

And now only one bid frome me to all, please...and don't hit me (now) for these lines. Thanks.

Delete things from the past out of your brain an make a thick line under all from the past, to have a look in a fine upcoming (WB-)future. There are really, a many good ideas here in the WB-forum.

This is the thick line --->

█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
Beginne damit, alles zu vergessen, was du weißt. Dann bist du so, wie du bist und du fühlst, was du fühlst. Das ist es – so einfach.(Samarpan) - All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Offline Stefek

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2015, 05:50:04 PM »
@Justy,

actually no. I am operating from present time.

@Uwe

ahahaaaha. This was a joke. Now I understand your humor.
BTW. I am really relaxed. Please don't get mad at people because they're relaxed.

@Moderators
Please anyone could you close this thread. It's becoming rather pointless. Uwe won't appreciate my well meant suggestions anyway and it's going into off topic for way too long now.
"Gemeinsam schafft man mehr."

gemeinsam
1. mehreren Personen oder Dingen in gleicher Weise gehörend, eigen
2. in Gemeinschaft [unternommen, zu bewältigen]; zusammen, miteinander
#Duden

Offline Argos

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Re: Discussion about English only forum
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2015, 02:04:26 AM »
Topic closed by argos. This is leading nowhere.
Jurgen Nijhuis
Argos Media
Heiloo, The Netherlands
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