How many people are still using WebsiteBaker?

[Gast]

actualy we have only a handfull of addons with this safe select's

it means: that the addons working together with new and next PHP-versions and also in mysql-strict-mode

safe-to-work in WB, not unsafe in the sense of a Security Announcement

[N1kko]

I moved to Wordpress around 1 year ago. What's the point using something that is so outdated? WB has been dead a long time, also modules are no longer updated or supported.

With Wordpress the possibilities are endless 

[Gast]

What's the point using something that is so outdated?

i think, the handling in the backend for beginners.
i work also with wp and i make it possible for my customers, to try both systems. the most of them are realy beginners or started with 1-click-construction-kits like jimbo, some mouse-clicks and a editor, finish is the page. their using only small projects with 10-20 pages, some pictures, a contact-form, maybe a guestbook, dont need dynamic content like the last twitter- or facebook-post etc. my customers are private persons or little company's and change the content max 2-4 times in a year.
the work in the backend of wb or his forks is very easy to learn and you remember, what you have to do, when you coming back one year later. for my customers wp looks too complexe, too much to learn, too much to forget, wb (or other small systems) are enough for this job

With Wordpress the possibilities are endless

yes, if you need this possibilitys 

[Argos]

And that is exactly what is wrong with WB. It has not been kept up to date with website progress. In the old days WB was sufficient for most websites, because most websites were relatively simple. But professional websites have become more and more complex. WB doesn't have the tools to create the kind of sites the average business owner wants.

Sure, you can buy a cool HTML/CSS template at Themeforest or Templatemonster, and make it into a WB site. But that's it. There are no out of the box usable news, blog, gallery, and contact modules, let alone built-in page builders and modules for all kins of advanced website functionalities.

So WB has become a tool for only the most simple, semi-static sites.

I agree the WB admin is way more easy to understand for clients than WP and other CMS'es. But in the end it's primarily the frontend functions that matters, not the backend. While WP is not as user friendly as WB in many respects, it is way more advanced, the community and available addons are enormous, and it offers all the tools and options to create both simple and advanced professional websites.

It is unrealistic to think WB will catch up with WP, but if WB (either original or a fork) can catch up to at least some higher level that offers all functions required for creating a general professional website, it still has a chance of survival and use other than for the most simple low budget semi-static sites.

By the way, even WB has proven to be too complicated for most of my customers, and most of them let me do their content work every now and then. I have used WB on many dozens of client sites in the past, and only one of them did and still does his own content. All the others outsourced it to me. Go figure. So actually I wonder if a simple backend is that important for customers anyway. The most important aspect of a CMS is not an easy backend for end users, but (potential) power and flexiblilty in design, administration and functionality for website builders. Joomla's backend is a disaster, and that is one of its pitfalls. WP's backend (as well as WB's backend) is partly user friendly, and partly not so. But it's enough to survice and grow. But it's the potential, the power, and the possibilities (by using themes and addons) that count. That is why WP has become leader of the pack, and WB is stumbling along. WB's so called ease of use and simplicity has actually become just a lack of features and possibilities.

I hope this post won't be deleted, because criticism and open discussions about shortcomings will only be beneficial for WB as a community driven system. Removing posts like this will hinder progress and community support. We'll see what happens...

[N1kko]

I understand people find WP complicated but add in Visual Composer and you get a real easy to edit site, and once you show a client how to use it everything falls into place. I have been using CMS Pro before WP which is very user-friendly but unfortunately costs $40 on codecanyon but well worth a look as support is great and it also has some great modules.

If WB was updated and more modules I would have stuck with it as I used it for every clients site.

[Gast]

By the way, even WB has proven to be too complicated for most of my customers, and most of them let me do their content work every now and then. I have used WB on many dozens of client sites in the past, and only one of them did and still does his own content. All the others outsourced it to me.

exactly the opposite here: 112 WB-Installations and only 6 of them let me do the work with the content. and for the others, the simple backend was the main reason for using WB.
Maybe i can make a lot of money, if i tell them, wb is dead, use WP and pay for me, if i change your content, but its not my way.
this 106 wb-users works the whole time with wb and say's: its good enough for my project, its easy enough to change a price for a coffee shop two times in a year or add a new actress-job in a wysiwyg-section, why should i pay for that? i can do it by myself! And they do it....

of course, i lost some of the customers to WP, if i've to say, this or that functionality is not possible, but i can write a module - no, i take a free WP-Addon....thats life.... on the other side i win customers from typo3 or joomla, and their are realy happy with the simple backend 

every project need the best solution and sometimes WB is not the best if you need some professional functionalitys like a big shop system etc.
we have a lot of very good pages on WB-Core-Base (fork or "classic" wb - doesnt matter)
i remember to chio's words - the user or visitor has no interest to take a look under the hood in front- or backend - here is my idea - is it possible with wb - yes or no?

Sure, you can buy a cool HTML/CSS template at Themeforest or Templatemonster, and make it into a WB site. But that's it. There are no out of the box usable news, blog, gallery, and contact modules, let alone built-in page builders and modules for all kins of advanced website functionalities.

is this a part of the core development? i think: no
i see no addon development, we've only a handfull newer and free modules / module version in the last two or three years, members  &&  topics from chio, bakery from freeSbee and Ruud's modules. Its very easy to say: we need, we need, but who will spend his spare time?
look here, to the forks or to other small systems: you have 2-3 workers for the core and 2-3 addon developer and with a little luck, their are not the same people, everybody has a job, a family etc.
WP has a very big comunity with millions of users and its possible to found there more addon developer like here

[Argos]

Sure everyone has a life besides contributing to an open source project. But what's that to me or other users? Private stuff always competes with work stuff, that's life. People get ill, have accidents, get divorced, loose jobs, there are deaths, etc. All bad things that naturally come first to the people involved. Of course! But the truth is, it's not of any concern to the users. If there are only 1 or 2 devs working on the core, and they have all kinds of s*** happening, that's sad for them. And if they have arguments and fights all the time among each other, that is sad and bad as well. And if online project collaboration is not running smoothly, it's also a bad thing. In the end it all gets in the way of project progress. And if that continues for a long time, an open source project will get behind and become less interesting for its users. I feel a bit sad that WB has come to this stage, but on the other hand, only real life matters. Software comes and goes. Maybe WB has come to the end of its life, and maybe it can be revived, I don't know. It's not even important in the bigger scheme of things.

I'm a site builder for clients. I just need a proper tool to build professional sites. WB has been my first and only choice for many, many years, I loved it so I have done my contributions to it. But WB is not my child or my wife, it's just a tool. And the tool has seen very little progress in functional development. I hasn't kept up with the demands of the industry. I cannot change that, so I have to choose another tool. It's as simple as that.

I can't code, so I have to rely on devs to build a modern core and modern addons. I don't care if something is code or addon. That's totally irrelevant for me as a site creator. I just need to be able to create what I want without too much fuss and without heavy custom coding. And I cannot do it with WB anymore. Maybe some future WB version can, I hope so!

On topic: the question was "How many people are still using WebsiteBaker?" The answer is that there are still many people using it. But that's actually not very important. More important is: how many people will use WB in the future? The answer is: that number will become smaller and smaller if nothing drastically changes. I don't say that to annoy or seek a fight, on the contrary. I wish WB and its developers all the best. But it's just how I see it. So by keeping the focus on the few good things of WB (the small footprint, the simplicity of the backend, and the easy creation of templates), you only fool yourself. It's far more constructive and better to focus on what's NOT good. Because that is the ONLY way to improvement. Closing discussions and topics about what's not good about WB, or ignoring those facts and only focussing on good things, is a sure road to the final end of the project.

[sky writer]

WB is the ONLY CMS I have ever used for website development for my clients, and I intend to continue as long as I can.  I tried many of the others in my early search for a tool that felt good in my hands.  Some looked prettier, many were much more popular, but none felt just right, simple as that.  And then I found this forum full of positive, like-minded people from around the world, who seemed eager to help each other, and my decision was made.  Few of those particular people are still seemingly active with WB or on the forum, all for their own reasons, which I respect.  I've felt the tug over the years to try another CMS, whether it be a WB fork or one of the big names, but it just hasn't felt right to me.  Maybe someday I will look back at all this time I have struggled through my early development days and say "What were you thinking?!", but I have always been of the mind, if something is broken, you fix it.  You don't throw things away just to buy the next shiny new toy on the shelf.

I'm also a lover not a fighter.  That said, I can find points to agree with on both sides.  I voiced some of my thoughts on a similar thread back in January of this year - http://forum.WebsiteBaker.org/index.php/topic,27938.msg194760.html#msg194760
I was hopeful that I might be able to find a way to spark or reignite camaraderie toward a common goal.  I was obviously naive and didn't realize the depth of the issues.  Surely, this will not degrade to a debate of who is selfless vs. who is selfish.

All people have needs.  From my experiences in life, most people don't realize what those needs truly are.  But GIVING is the one need, which when exercised, brings the greatest fulfillment.  We all have limits and responsibilities which restrain our time, but none of us are incapable of finding way to give.  As far as WB is concerned, that could be devoting time to discussing positive ideas to further development, developing a module, testing a module, providing detailed feature request suggestions, or yes, even 'donating' to a developer.  Even constructive criticism is a form of giving, but it's an empty offering when not accompanied by some form of suggestion or forward thinking idea toward improvement.

My call to action in my above linked post - "If there is anyone who wants to start working on even just one aspect they feel is lacking or a weakness, let's see what we can do as a community.  I don't want to continue to just sit back while members walk out the door.", was met with the rousing sound of crickets.  So, I will keep trying.

We need to be more efficient.  We need to grow.  We need to work together.  Here's someplace we can start - When an added module functionality is requested in the forum, instead of the amazingly helpful developers energy and time being spent on typing scattered forum replies offering code snippets to hack individual installations of the module (a post which all to often gets lost in the abyss, or at the very least, obscured by the multitude of development thread tangents), we need to embrace that moment in time when there is momentum and passion around a topic to strengthen the core of that module, and see it through to a new version.  We should try to refrain from bickering and stalling, and think, "why are we all here?".  I'm not saying that the helpful developer should necessarily be the one to do all the work to update every module there are request for.  If there is an active developer on that module, it would be nice if  they took note and pride in furthering the usefulness of their offering.  If there is no active module developer, perhaps we could have some "wranglers" who would be willing to piece these bits of refreshing code together and breath new life into stagnant developments, helping to build strength into the WB brand and family.  I'm not sure what the best approach would be, but anything would be better than nothing.

Oh, I forgot to mention.  I'm also a dreamer.

Peace to all.

[Tez Oner]

@jacobi22

I think your (again) pulling things pretty much out of proportions, we had this language
discussions earlier and filling up the forum with such (personal) issues doesn't seem to
contribute much to the discussion, you don't come with constructive solutions IMO.

All the time with german / russian issues? It - is - of course constructive, for longer term
to translate also core files to english thats language any developer can speak / code and
gives developers changes to develop new code on WB.

But thats my opinion

Cheerz,

Tez Oner

(And I'm yeh still developing on WB, that was the topic about right).

[Abanksy]

I think the point of a very first question was not that WB is dying because it is not good enough anymore, but that it’s fading because of strong competitors, that displace it from the league. Each CMS has its pluses and minuses. Both WB and WordPress are very convenient and powerful content management systems, but let’s face it, now WP is more relevant. 
WordPress is known worldwide and more successful. If you ask any person who is just slightly acquainted with web building to name one CMS, the first one in his mind would be WordPress. Because now it’s everywhere, and people prefer to use it because it’s easy.  Look at any templates or themes marketplace, the majority of ready web dev solutions is based on WP. I agree with the point that WB will be more ‘active’ if to use English by default.  Of course it’s better to communicate in your native language. And if your clients from all over the world know German, it’s super. But I believe that majority don’t. So using more English can be not that bad idea.

[Tez Oner]

@jacobi22

Can't you stop ranting - again and again - (and it's even off-topic) about the 'language barrier'
every time. Have some private conversation or some like that - it's been made clear that WB needs
to be more 'international' orientated if it want's to survive as a CMS.

Think everybody knows you didn't grew up with the English language, but with German and Russian,
but it's 2016 - awake 

Keeps the topic what it's about - or contribute somethings constructive, WB is a powerful CMS with
that got possibilities - but that depends on the community.

And yeh also again launched another WB website - for me tho I also work with Magento and other
mayor systems WB is still the tool for medium and some big websites.

Cheerz,

Tez Oner

 

[Gast]

Im Gegensatz zu dir mach ich hier noch was und schwing nicht nur große Reden, die keinen interessieren. Die Tatsache allein, das du da nach 3 Monaten wieder auskramst, um mal wieder auszuteilen, beweist doch schon, welcher Sinn dahinter steckt.

Wenn du englisch sprechen willst, dann mach das und wenn es niederländisch ist, auch egal - das ist ein internationales Forum, ob es dir gefällt oder nicht.

[Boudi]

I close this topic for obvious reasons. This is a public forum. Help each other and respect each other. Thank you.