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Discussion about English only forum

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jacobi22:
thx for splitting the discussion!



--- Quote from: Argos on April 17, 2015, 12:38:25 AM --- Jacobi created some crazy spinoff that Germans are not welcome anymore

--- End quote ---

And Argos created some crazy spinoff that

--- Quote ---Many developing discussions take place only in the German forums, and in my opinion that is one of the reasons of the decreasing popuarity and development of WB...
--- End quote ---

and Boudi say's

--- Quote ---Let's hope that the (only) German speaking/writing users are starting to realize when this exodus keeps continuing there's no WB left soon.
--- End quote ---

Ja, is okay, der böse Deutsche wieder......
Welche Art Entwickler-Diskussionen hast du denn öffentlich in den letzten Jahren geführt? Welche wurde denn überhaupt geführt? In meiner Vorstellung und nach den Informationen, die hier auf der Homepage zu finden waren, gab es mal Entwickler-Teams und in diesen Teams wurde festgelegt, in welche Richtung es gehen soll. Von diesen Entwickler-Teams ist wohl aktuell nur noch Manu übrig geblieben, also kaum Platz für riesige Diskussionen.
Nach meinen Vorstellungen soll der Verein die Stimmung der Userschaft aufnehmen und diese, sofern sinnvoll, für die Entwicklung vorschlagen. Hier gab es sicher die eine oder andere Diskussion, z.b. ob ein eigenes Page_Icon möglich ist oder ob dieser oder jener Einstellungspunkt nicht besser bei den erweiterten statt den allgemeinen Optionen aufgehoben ist. Und solche Threads findest du sowohl im englischen wie auch im deutschen Bereich.
Sicher hat z.b. Stefek in seinen Modulvorstellungsth read's (z.b. Seo-Tool) im deutschsprachigem Bereich mehr Postings gehabt als im gleichem englischen Thread und natürlich war das, auf das Modul bezogen, auch eine Entwicklungsdiskuss ion.
Mit Verlaub, so sehr ich das Modul auch mag, mal ehrlich, auch ohne dieses Modul wäre WB in der gleichen Misere, also gehe ich mal davon aus, das mit

--- Quote from: Argos ---developing discussions
--- End quote ---
auch Core-Entwicklung gemeint ist.
Eine Diskussion, in dem Maße das deutsche User like me festgelegt haben, wohin WB geht, hat es nicht gegeben, weder im englischen, noch im deutschen Bereich.
Es gibt ein Ziel: WB goes OOP mit größtmöglicher Abwärtskompatiblitä t - da gibt es (aus meiner Sicht) auch nicht viel zu diskutieren. Ich als Laie hab vielleicht mal Ideen kundgetan, zu denen irgendwer eine Meinung hatte, aber diese Möglichkeit hattet ihr im englischem Bereich auch. Nur genutzt hat sie keiner.

Zeig uns bzw mir doch einfach mal ein paar Beispiele, wo solche Diskussionen über die Core-Entwicklung stattgefunden haben.

@Boudi: von deinen letzten 20 Problemchen hast du in mindestens 15 Fällen von einem Stupid German wie mir eine helfende Antwort bekommen, u.a. auch, weil von deinen Landsmännern keiner mehr da ist. Ich denke, in der Zukunft wirst du einen Translator benötigen oder drauf verzichten müssen

[ Not to make you even more iritated than you already seem, but this is an English forum, as you are very well aware of. Please write English here, so we can all understand what the angry German has to say. / Edited by argos ]

Boudi:
Hallo Uwe,

Das einzige was ich den ganzen zeit sage ist das viel wichtige diskussionen, patches und aufösungen gerade nur im Deutsch anwesen sind und damit es ein problem gibt für alle nicht Deutschen besucher. Und das ist sönde.

Ich muss aber sagen dat du das verstehst. Dus hast mehrmals mehrere topics Im Deutsch und im English hergestellt wofür dank. Mein Deutsch ist nicht al zu gut aber ich auch probiere im Zweitsprache zu unterhalten wenn möglich :)

[ And the same goes for you. Sorry guys, please stick to the agreements here. / edited by argos ]

Yetiie:
Hard discussion.

First of all I have to agree with jacobi22 when he indicated, that all (technical) development information are posted in english first (even it is not a very small modul from a developer who may not speek german). The main developers works in german too. IMHO WB is based on an international background.

But indeed: A lot of the main developers and supporters are germans (important is to note: not all, the team up to now is an international team and works on international level!!!). And a very huge number of users are indeed germans too (however this trend developed). As (mostly engaged users, not developers) posts their ideas in their native language a lot of discussion about ideas and strategy to wb is in german ...




WB differences based on language

This trend made some difference.

First of all in the german forum are a lot of very hard discussions. Based on their information there are many users who are not happy with the development of wb. This grows over the last years and comes up to a very hard struggle about the situation of wb at the moment. Cause german developers AND(!) users (sorry to say this) are mostly old-school-developers (germans like me indeed are very traditional people) ideas for modern designs, presentations, webdevelopment, actual technologies ... are blocked (Let's say: table layouts are proofed standard which works in a solid way ... not reason to discuss about modern frameworks or using modern sources .... or even to change it in wb ;-) ).

IMHO: Contrary to this the way of thinking about webdesign in the english forum is more on an international (modern, actual ... and HIGHER) level. And some users in the english forum tends to a similar thinking of the situation of wb. (Indeed the cirtical useres in the englisch forum becomes more and more too.) But the way of discussion up to now is friendly here. Unhappiness and feedback is expressed in a calm way. And even when a developer or supporter leave he goes in a very friendly without making (very) clear (enough) that he is not longer pleased with the way wb develops ...  Let's say: no reason for a typical(!) german not-only-wb-developer to change his way ... ;-)

So the traditional german way wins and decrease of wb goes on ... and on ... and on.




Chances: What could be done?

IMHO it would be a great chance for wb if the international users with the international way to develop webpages would become a larger weight to the decision process.


(1) First chance: international discussion

In the german forum was announced that there will be an online meeting of developers, supporters (and as I understood it) supporting users about the future of wb and working on it (this is not the official election meeting I mentioned yesterday). NOTE: This information was spread by chance in the german forum (and is not an official information up to now which of course will come I believe!!!)

I suggest to make an official international announcment in the different wb language forums. The language of the meeting should be in english (I believe that is the plan) too.

Take part in the meeting ... announce your ideas for wb ... and maybe this will raise an more international impulse for wb :-)



(2) Build a little stone for WB

To be honest: only speeking about ideas for WB is is important and helps to get modern impulses ... but only if you support wb you are able to change it in an active way. (Yes, I know, a lot of the readers hre are engaged yet but maybe you can do  little(!) bit more?)

So: Maybe you would like not only to discuss but to support wb as official supporter, developer. Help for the plattform is NEEDED and WELCOME !!! PLEASE ASK FOR IT. FIRST ASKING FOR POSSIBILITIES AND SUGESTIONS FOR IDEAS DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU HAVE TO IT!!! YOU CAN THINK ABOUT IT AFTER YOUR FIRST CONTACT!!!

And: if you would like to do it not fix integrated in a team: maybe you would like to realize a special project (modul, template, framework, i.e.) for wb ... not on your own but on an official base which could be presented on the wb webpage as an official source (not only in an not official way here in the forum). PLEASE ASK FOR THIS TOO!!!

And there are a lot off not official sources in the forum: i.e.: Maybe there is an international bootstrap user who would like to manage a wb bootstrap source pool ... a.s.o. ;-)

And a wish to the development team: please give us a working and modern, attractive, not old-fashioned plattform to conclude our activities for wb !!! (Maybe there is somene here who whants to help in this?) :-)



The opportunity: As more international supporters become part of the off the system as more international webstandards can be integrated to wb.

I am sure: International impulses would help to bring wb back!

Boudi:
Nice reading  :-)

I offered my help already to one of the boardmembers. Yes I have plans but, and you're right, those plans are modern and/but highly needed in order to keep WB alive.

First things first and that is to create/extend the board with new users/developers who believe in WB and are willing to actively participate in that.

So I think the BEST idea is to motivate users/developers in order to extend the current WB team en spit their ideas and most important: put these ideas into practise.

So, ... count me in!  :mrgreen:

PS; let's give credits for Luisehahe and Darkviper for rebuilding WB as we speak. So important what they're doing right now.

easyuser:
We should see, that most people are no native English speakers, but speak English because it's the world language (and quite easy to learn / understand).

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